Those that are frequent readers of my blog will know I don’t spend a lot of time on low-cost carriers. If you correctly categorize Southwest as a “used-to-be low-cost carrier”, then virtually never. But, this is where the Big 3 of American, Delta and United have hurt themselves.
Over the past few years the Big 3 have significantly devalued their frequent flier programs. American Airlines was the most recent to do so, removing a ton of benefits for frequent fliers. In doing so, they broke through a fundamental barrier. In the past, the airlines would give you miles based on distance and elite status. Going forward, customers earn miles based on how much they paid for your ticket. American even went so far as to say they’ll decide whether to give you an upgrade based on how much you’ve spent with them over the past year.
They also made elite status less valuable, removing and reducing benefits. There’s very little incentive to keep flying once you’ve earned status for a given year. And, if you’re not chasing elite status, you’re certainly better off chasing the cheapest non-stop flight at the time you need than factoring in the value of the miles you receive.
I found myself in the position of needing to get from Cincinnati to Denver recently for a work trip. United wanted almost $500 for the privilege of a connecting flight through Chicago. Frontier offered up the same choice for around $40. I had to purchase a carry-on bag and chose to purchase a better seat, but I was still saving roughly $400. Since I wasn’t chasing a higher status level with United, the changes they’ve made essentially pushed me to consider Frontier here.
My flight departed from the end of one of the concourses at Cincinnati Airport. This was a sleepy concourse compared to the ones Delta occupies. The flight boarded on time. They allowed connecting passengers to get back on first, then elite members. Despite a full flight of 230 seats, there were only 2 elite members who boarded.
That’s not terribly surprising. You need 20,000 miles or 25 segments to qualify for elite status with Frontier. That’s not impossible, but they still don’t have a huge route network. And, the biggest downside for a business traveler to 20,000 miles on Frontier is the lack of frequency to some destinations. Well, other than the uncomfortable seats. More on that later. Business travelers can have a lot riding on an on-time flight. If a flight is delayed/cancelled on a low-cost carrier, it could be hours (or the next day) before the next available flight. And, airlines like Frontier lack interline agreements with all the other major carriers to help deal with irregular operations (IRROPS). The lack of depth in schedule and interline agreements are a major factor on why I don’t choose low-cost carriers more often.
I had sprung the extra few bucks to get a stretch seat instead of regular seating. That entitled me to board early, though there was no rush to get overhead space. Frontier charges for carry-on space and the bins definitely were not full when we pushed back. In this instance, I embrace the carry-on fee. Frontier puts 230 passengers on their version of the Airbus A321. In comparison, American appears to seat 187 in the US Airways config. Now, that plane has a first class cabin and some extra legroom seating. Frontier only had a few rows of stretch seating on my aircraft. If all 230 people were allowed to bring on a carry-on bag, there would be a lot of disappointed folks.
My seat was actually reasonably comfortable, especially given that I had set low expectations. British Airways has the most comfortable slimline seat I’ve sat in. This was nowhere near that, but much better than the United seats of doom. I was in the bulkhead row so I had plenty of legroom.
The tray table was stored in the armrest, typical in bulkhead rows. I used my iPad during the flight but would have had no problem using my 13″ MacBook Air. Unsurprisingly, you won’t find power outlets on these planes, not even a secret hidden one like this. You won’t find Wi-Fi, another negative for business travelers who want to stay in contact during the flight.
There’s no recline and the armrest is kinda wimpy, but there’s some cushion to the back and seat bottom. Overall, it wasn’t a bad seat for my 2+ hour flight.
After the flight was over, I moved back one row to see what a non-bulkhead stretch seating row felt like. I still had plenty of legroom and a full tray table that was a bit more sturdy.
Holy hell. This isn’t an airplane seat. It’s barely a bus seat. In a zany, though interesting, cost-cutting move, the seats don’t actually have a cover to the back. It’s just exposed metal. It ain’t pretty, but doesn’t really make a huge difference. But, the tray table. Just awful. You couldn’t use any laptop I’ve ever owned on this tray table. You could probably stand an iPad up on it to watch a movie. But, I’m not even sure you could type on the screen to do work.
The seats appear to have less padding but I didn’t sit in them for long. Did I mention the tray table? I guess they felt like they had to have one for the drinks they sell to customers (sorry, no freebies there). Otherwise, not sure why you bother with a tray that wimpy.
I found the flight crew to be friendly and engaging. I asked them for a couple of trading cards to bring home to my kids and they were more than happy to oblige. Frontier Airlines gives out trading cards with all of the different animals that appear on the tails of their planes to kids flying with them.
A bottled water, soda, juice or snack item will set you back $3. Alcoholic drinks are $8. I sanity checked the pricing against United Airlines (they were handy on a flight I had this morning) and found them to be comparable. Given the prices of things in the terminal, I don’t regard these prices as unreasonable. You can purchase a package/bundle of items and save enough money to make the prices almost cheap by airport standards.
The Final Two Pennies
Would I fly Frontier again? Sure. I definitely would consider them on a case-by-case basis. As a business traveler, I wouldn’t choose to fly them for flights longer than an hour unless I could make sure I had stretch seating. They might call them “laptop computers” but I don’t relish the thought of trying to work with my computer on my lap for a couple of hours while potentially balancing a drink and/or snack on the postage stamp sized tray table.
As a leisure traveler, I would absolutely look at Frontier for future trips. I wouldn’t consider them for things like heading out to catch a cruise ship or something else time-sensitive. They just don’t have enough frequency to give me comfort, and the lack of interline agreements exacerbates that worry for me. But, given how frequently they run $20 one-way special fares out of my home airport of Washington-Dulles, my family of four could save a bunch of money on short regional trips.
I’m still leery of relying on Frontier Airlines as a business traveler for the reasons mentioned. I can deal with a small seat and no Wi-Fi on shorter flights. But, the vast majority of time I get on a plane, I need to be there when it lands.
That’s the challenge low-cost carriers face in trying to drive higher fares. Some, like Spirit, increase profitability through fees for things like assisted check-in and bags. Others, like Southwest, break out of the mold and convince customers to pay more for what they offer. Low-cost carriers are here to stay, and the Big 3 feel like they need to compete. That’s the reason you see them offering “Basic Economy”. United’s most recent offering here is more painful than Delta’s, with American’s details still to come. The progression of service cuts and extra fees is a good indication there’s enough of a perceived appetite from customers to pay less, no matter how uncomfortable they are.
The post I Flew Frontier, Saved $400 And Didn’t Die. My Frontier Airlines Review was published first on Pizza in Motion
We used them a couple of years ago and enjoyed our flight. For a little over $70 rt from DTW to Dulles what can you complain about? Our free baggage fit under the seat and we carried on our own bottles of water. It was a budget trip and I would fly them again for a cheap long weekend in Dc. I do know I did not have a tray table that small, it is pretty funny to see.
I am able to enjoy more trips to see family because of Frontier Airline’s low fares and non-stop routes. Love them!
Sandra, I love hearing that. I don’t necessarily want to fly Frontier every time. But, I love that it gives more people the opportunity to explore the world and spend time with family. Love it!
Setting in airport now
Plane was two hrs late due to mechanical problem from Denver
Then Set on the plane for an hour and a half
Now stand in line for 1/2 hr for meal
Don’t know when we get back on plane
Over the last couple of years, Frontier has made a few changes. One can’t recline the seat, lighter seats and the mini-tray. What does bother me is that a route might only last a few months. Out of STL, currently ATL is the furthest north on the Eastern seaboard. I flew from Pittsburgh to Chicago $45 with a checked bag. I believe that disappeared after 2-3 months.
The stretch seats on Frontier DO recline. There is a flap that is part of the seat frame front bottom on the side opposite to the pull out tray. Flip down to recline the seat and flip down again to put the seat in its “fully upright position”.
I could find stretch seat recline information anywhere in F9’s on-board materials. Just ask a flight attendant or someone with a reclined seat.
There are reasons Elite tier travelers have dropped off their grid. You never know when you are going to arrive and with all of there gate people and baggage people farmed out to save money you just don’t get any quality service.
I have had a consulting gig last couple of months in St. Louis and have flown Frontier LAS-STL redeye 8x in recent weeks. The planes are always full. The planes are new A321s. I always sit in the front bulkhead row on the overnight flight. I have never paid more than $125 o/w with the seat fee. I paid $55 last week. SWA fares for the same non-stop route have ranged between $250-560 o/w. The planes have always been on time or early. The flight attendants polite. Frontier is a decent alternative. I have also used Spirit LAS-MCI several times. Again, newer plane and no issues with performance. I think the legacy carriers will have a hard time matching the ultra low cost model. I have flown United in the “seats of doom.” I dread future United trips in those seats,
Other than maybe trying Spirit’s Extra Space seats, their standard economy seats are just like Frontier’s with that metal flap on the seat back. For two hours or less, Spirit was bearable except for the pesky kids behind us whose parents can’t control.
GC, I flew Spirit and didn’t hate it. I had a Big Front Seat, which aided my opinion.
My family of 5 flew from Aus. To mco. With Frontier we all got the stretch seating and the seats reclined and the table tray was the same as Southwest..My mom flew on the same flight as us but got regular seating and the table tray was the same as ours, she had a toddler with her so she was not able to sit the the first rows. I had no complaints against Frontier, to be honest I saw no difference between Southwest and Frontier but the pricing.
Angela, I think Frontier is fine with the stretch seating. It’s pretty tight (tighter than Southwest), and they continue to roll out those wimpy tray tables. But, it’s hard to beat the price!
I fly CLE to AUS at least 5 times per year to visit family. I always fly one of the ultra low airlines. Fares have ranged from $68-$140. These are all nonstop flights. What is bothersome to me is that I always read reviews before using any new service. The internet is full of poor reviews for airlines such as Spirit, Frontier and Allegiant. Most of these are from people have failed to read policies thoroughly and then blamed the airline. Don’t complain about paying $65 for a carry-on when you saved $300-$400 on the flight.
Stacy, sometimes we lack perspective on such things. 😉
Glad you’ve got a good outlook. Spirit and Frontier aren’t perfect. But, they can save you a bunch of money.
I’m curious (choosing seating for an upcoming flight); I understand that there is a bigger tray on the seat behind the stretch seating making them a somewhat better option if stretch is taken – but wouldn’t that be a bad seat to pick if the person in stretch knew how to use recline and you are already stuck in 28″ pitch? Or do you think those seats behind stretch have an extra inch to accommodate that recline?
Dawn, I haven’t sat in the specific row you’re talking about. However, my stretch seat did not recline.
If I switch to that seat I’ll come back let you know how it works out – thanks for your response!
Thanks, Dawn! I’d love to have the info for my readers.
Alrighty – after flying on a 4.5 hour flight, I agree – this is a good seat to get (I had aisle). The person in front of me did recline – but the recline is almost negligible in my opinion so it never bothered me. It looked visually like he might have gained an inch at very the most. At 5’6 I had no issue with pitch at all and I really appreciate the larger tray table – just easier to hold all the bits and bobs, you know? I saw the guy across the aisle use a laptop but didn’t try mine. He had a belly and looked like he was working a bit tight – and the person in front of him looked to be reclined as well so it was doable. The pitch is supposed to be tighter than Allegiant by a good 2-3 inches, but I felt like those was the tighter ones, but maybe because this is a row near the front? In Allegiant I prefer to take the last row (they fill differently). Or maybe I didn’t have as much pre-recline in their slimline being against the back wall. Or, maybe Frontier did give this row a little more pitch because of the recline ahead? Who knows. Didn’t really didn’t have a chance to take out a tape measure and check! I also found the seat wider than Allegiant. I’m a bit fluffy in the hips and didn’t feel the armrests like I did on Allegiant. And you know, despite being a harder seat I actually never pulled out my inflatable pad (I deal with sciatica)…and not sure why these were okay. I do fly with an underseat item that lets me prop my feet up, and switch up using that, the bar under my seat for my heels and get up at least every 45 minutes. I was really amazed with how a couple of liquid painkillers and a couple of good movies on my phone just how fun a long flight can be!! Usually in seats at our university and lecture halls I can be squirming in pain in less than an hour. Finally, I have to say I actually love the new slimline seats. I was a very anxious flyer for the last decades to the point I wouldn’t fly and I feel like it had to do with claustrophobia. I think the slimline helps me feel less enclosed. My last Frontier fight a decade ago with the TVs and I was a wreck. My new discovery this flight? There are call buttons for the attendant to bring you more ice or drinks…who knew? Doh! I hope this helps any of your readers that are an anxious flyer – or have had worries about flying the ULCCs. I have to give them a thumbs up so far. Great way to fly if you know what to expect and are on a budget
Dawn, thanks for the very thorough review! I agree that Frontier can be the perfect fit for a tight budget. It’s all about setting expectations. And, now we know a bit more about how to pick the perfect seat on Frontier, thanks to you!
Oops, sorry for the typos – feel free to correct!
How big are the seats? There are three of us and we are definitely on the bigger side. We dont have any issues on other air lines because they offer seatbelt extenders.
Michelle, Frontier has actually rolled out a slightly wider middle seat on some planes. The rest of the seats are the same width as most other economy class products you’ll find flying around the US.
Frontier Airlines seems to try to present themselves as a budget airline, but charge astronomical fees. I have consistently seen very rude employees in personal experiences with Frontier Airlines. They entice you with low fares, but I have seen them raise their prices before I can complete a booking. I have also seen error messages on their website when trying to book their “low” costs. When I go back to try again; the error has mysteriously vanished and the prices have gone up significantly. I have had numerous conversations with their customer service agents on the phone, and they are extremely rude and have even hung up on me. My family and I have been mistreated and humiliated at the boarding gate as well as observing the poor treatment of other Frontier Airline customers.
I am very disappointed with my experiences with them, and would not recommend using Frontier Airlines as I would not wish this on anyone!